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Pitchers - Dedicated Catchers

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  • Pitchers - Dedicated Catchers

    Should pitchers be allowed to pick the catcher?
    4
    Yes
    100.00%
    4
    No
    0%
    0
    Drew's Sig

  • #2
    this is an attempt to get the Ramos vs Nido vs Thor discussion into the forum

    Comment


    • #3
      I would say a catcher-pitcher relationship is the closest thing to marriage in the sports world. And like the real world not all marriages work out. And telling one to make do will often lead to disastrous results.
      Drew's Sig

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      • #4
        for a team that has been talking analytics and sabermetrics for awhile; they just really seem to ignore a lot of statistical data...Sandy's teams had the walk; take pitches; hit home runs approach...BVD's team so far also has ignored defense and athleticism as well so far...

        Is there a time when putting a player with more athleticism or defense on the field warranted? or do we just assume that players can outhit their flaws (even when those flaws are affecting the pitchers)? For example, was Tom Glavine warranted for not like Roger Cedeno's defense?

        Comment


        • #5
          I recently read that in 2018; agent Brodie Van Wagoneer (BVD for short) told his client Jacob deGrom to demand that Devin Mesoraco catch all of his starts...

          The deGrom/Mesoraco combo only allowed 25 Earned Runs in 21 starts...which by the way, had the worse K/BB ratio of his battery mates & his 2nd highest OPS allowed of his battery mates...however, he did win the Cy Young; so apparently it was warranted that BVD demand that deGrom let his manager know that he thought that his other catcher choices sucked...

          Comment


          • #6
            I'll continue with my thoughts in the thread that I started...and then you can merge them afterwards

            Comment


            • #7
              Mets' Syndergaard: Bad splits with Ramos on me

              "The whole idea that we had a 'livid' -- or I was livid -- conversation was completely false," Syndergaard told reporters Tuesday. "We had a very cordial and adult conversation about the matter.

              "As far as Wilson, nothing but respect for the guy and it doesn't change our relationship ... he busts his ass everyday, I have ultimate respect for him. My only main concern was just having open dialogue with [the] front office and coaching staff."

              Syndergaard has a 5.09 ERA throwing to Ramos in 18 games and a 2.45 ERA with Tomas Nido in 10 games. The right-hander is 10-7 with a career-high 4.06 ERA overall in 28 starts this season. His name was mentioned in trade speculation as the July 31 deadline approached.

              Syndergaard said Tuesday that "as of right now" he doesn't have an issue with who catches him.

              "My initial frustration and why there were extreme splits with different catchers, more so of the matter is, it's all on me. I'm just trying to look for the answer," Syndergaard said. "... There's a certain it factor, there's a relationship -- a symbiotic relationship -- that [pitchers and catchers] can possess and it's all about being comfortable out there."

              Syndergaard can be a free agent following the 2021 season. Ramos signed a two-year, $19 million contract as one of Van Wagenen's free-agent acquisitions in his first offseason since moving from being an agent to New York's front office.

              Van Wagenen said Monday that he respected Syndergaard for sharing his feelings.

              "We listened to him, he understands our thought process that he may have other catchers catch him," the first-year GM said. "No different than he has earlier in the course of the season and we'll continue to make those evaluations on a day-by-day basis that gives us a chance to win."
              Noah Syndergaard denied being "livid" in his conversations with Mets brass over having to throw to Wilson Ramos despite having bad numbers when being paired with the catcher.

              Comment


              • #8
                These are Edwin Diaz splits by catcher:
                Tomas Nido 12 11.0 4 3.27 47 38 9 7 1 2 6 18 3.00 .184 .319 .368 .688
                Wilson Ramos 47 41.2 30 6.48 186 168 30 48 8 12 14 72 5.14 .286 .346 .548 .894
                Rene Rivera 1 0.1 0 0.00 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 1 .000 .000 .000 .000





                Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Original Table

                Generated 9/11/2019.

                Comment


                • #9
                  These are Familia's splits by catcher:

                  Travis dArnaud 1 .400 .500 .400 .900 2
                  Tomas Nido 7 .250 .267 .393 .660 11
                  Wilson Ramos 49 .268 .422 .459 .881 72

                  note: when pruning the table down to fit better, accidentally pruned too far....columns are:
                  Games;
                  Batting average allowed;
                  OBP allowed;
                  Slugging Percentage allowed;
                  OPS allowed;
                  Total Bases allowed;


                  Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Original Table

                  Generated 9/11/2019.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Syndergaard's splits by catcher:


                    Travis dArnaud 2 10.0 9 8.10 11 18 2 0 2 5 10 .391 .451 .565 1.016
                    Tomas Nido 10 66.0 18 2.45 20 52 14 3 3 19 63 .217 .277 .338 .614
                    Wilson Ramos 15 92.0 52 5.09 50 91 16 1 14 20 93 .259 .303 .429 .732
                    Rene Rivera 1 7.0 0 0.00 0 3 1 0 0 0 10 .125 .125 .167 .292

                    Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Original Table

                    Generated 9/11/2019.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      apparently it wasn't me, it was the way that the table compressor worked at baseball reference...it chopped off all the labels...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        and to contradict themselves with failing to believe that some pitchers that like to throw pitches down in the zone, might benefit from an old, chubby DH not behind the plate; the team continues to play Mr "I can't hit .200" Frazier at third while not playing both McNeil/JD on a semi-regular basis
                        Last edited by saxon; 11-Sep-2019, 08:16 PM. Reason: Apparently the profanity agent isn't working

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I'll kinda bullet point my feelings here that have been buried in the thread.
                          1. Runs saved is equally important to runs scored, and Ramos doesn't average 2.5 runs generated per game. So the math says give this a shot.
                          2. To argue just the offense side and ignore the run saving is part of what sunk the mets in the past, Lucas Duda in left field anyone?
                          3. Just because he had a good 2 game run with Ramos catching doesn't outshine the 16 bad that lead to the 5.09 ERA. And if Thor were to have 2 bad games with Nido catching, it wouldn't outshine the 10 that generated the 2.45 ERA.
                          4. Just because a pitcher has a personal catcher, doesn't mean he HAS to have that catcher every game. When a day/night game gets in the way, a manager is allowed to engage his brain and make a call.
                          5. Saying no just to say no is idiotic.
                          6. Making a private convo public just to alienate a player is even more idiotic.

                          I think that was all of my points
                          Last edited by NY FANG; 12-Sep-2019, 06:18 PM.

                          Comment


                          • West Coast Mets Fan
                            Editing a comment
                            Perfect summation. They are all good 5 & 6 are my sticking points.

                            I would add 7, well to be in the correct order 3a, Thor loses low slider because Ramos has difficulty handling pitches in the dirt
                            Last edited by West Coast Mets Fan; 13-Sep-2019, 11:31 AM.

                        • #14
                          Posted in the shout box

                          Ramos's offensive production is important, but the team can score runs without him. Overcoming a Thor clunker is harder to do.

                          Comment


                          • #15
                            [08:15 AM] mjjm367: During the game, the booth said that Mickey commented on the pairing of Stroman with Nido. He felt that Nido helped better with the low pitch that a slider/sinker pitcher like Stroman uses. And hey, Nido hit a HR, so we can call him Hank Aaron.

                            [08:18 AM] mjjm367: If a pitcher gets to dictate his catcher, can he also get to pick a particular fielder? "I'm feeling like ground balls today, so I want Guillorme at 2B". Or "I'm feeling like fly balls today, I want Lagares in CF". Wait, can't play Lagares, because someone below said we don't have a real CF anyway.
                            Replied in box, but here as well.

                            MJJM, your arguments are all counter intuitive. If a pitcher is a contact pitcher and produces a lot of fly balls, then YES, please put in the defensive CFer. No brainer. SAVING RUNS IS IMPORTANT Anything that puts the team in a position to win SHOULD be a conversation being had... the fact that it isn't because bringing it up makes Thor "entitled" in the media circus is a bad rational

                            And why does Stroman's low pitch slider/sinker get special consideration, and it's OUTRAGEOUS to think that Thor might also be limited on what he can work with on the mound due to his receiver?

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