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Explanations Behind the Wheel's Falling Off?

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  • Explanations Behind the Wheel's Falling Off?

    Wheeler's pitching splits by catcher:

    Split              ERA  R  H 2B HR SB CS BB SO SO/W   BA  OBP  SLG   OPS TB BAbip
    Jose Lobaton     12.60 13 17  4  4  1  0  6 10 1.67 .370 .434 .717 1.151 33  .394
    Devin Mesoraco    1.50  1  4  0  0  0  0  3  7 2.33 .190 .292 .190  .482  4  .286
    Tomas Nido        5.40  9 19  3  1  2  0  7 14 2.00 .306 .380 .403  .784 25  .375
    Kevin Plawecki    1.29  1  2  0  1  0  0  1  7 7.00 .087 .125 .217  .342  5  .067
    Provided by View Original Table
    Generated 5/17/2018.
    Last edited by saxon; 20-May-2018, 09:15 AM. Reason: Tried to edit thread title with no luck

  • #2
    Quite a difference, nice catch. Curious about IP per catcher.


    • #3
      Originally posted by mjjm367 View Post
      Quite a difference, nice catch. Curious about IP per catcher.
      Lobaton: 2 games, 10 innings;
      Nido: 3 games; 15 innings;
      Plaw: 1 game; 7 innings;
      Mesoraco: 1 game; 6 innings;


      • #4
        breakdown of Zachariah's starts:

        1st: 1 earned run, 2 hits, 1 walk, 7 Strikeouts, 7 innings, 83 pitches: Plawecki;

        2nd: 3 earned runs, 7 hits, 3 walks, 2 Strikeouts, 6 innings, 99 pitches, Nido;
        3rd: 4 ER, 6 hits, 2 BB, 3 K, 4 innings, 83 pitches, Nido;
        4th: 2 ER, 6 hits, 2 BB, 9 K, 5 innings, 95 pitches, Nido;

        6th: 1 ER, 4 hits, 3 BB, 7 K, 6 innings, 88 pitches, Masoraco;

        5th: 8 ER, 10 hits, 3 BB, 3 K, 6 innings, 100 pitches, Lobaton;
        7th: 6 ER, 7 hits, 3 BB, 7 K, 4 innings, 81 pitches, Lobaton;

        Maybe it's a coincidence, maybe there's an underlying story but...
        in his 2 starts with Plawecki/Masaraco, he was efficient with pitches, making it thru 6 or 7 innings in under 90 pitches while not giving up many hits or runs...
        in his 3 starts with Nido, he was no worse than mediocre in any of his starts, allowing more hits than his control can really allow but still not horrible...
        In his 2 starts with Lobaton, not good at all...we're talking Jason Vargas bad...
        Last edited by saxon; 18-May-2018, 01:14 AM.


        • #5
          Hopefully things will get a bit better when Plaw is back but I don't think it is the magic fix. That said Plaw and Mesoraco is a massive improvement on Lobaton and Nido.
          Last edited by abat; 19-May-2018, 09:39 AM. Reason: typo


          • #6
            weird thing is, I always thought Lobaton was pretty decent when he used to play AGAINST the Mets...


            • #7
              It isn't all that surprising as a general trend, but he's getting lit up by the 1-2-3 hitters in lineups. #2 hitters are hitting .526 against him. Against the other 2/3 of the lineup he's very effective though oddly the #8 guys are hitting .400. Of course the best hitters are at the top of the lineup but that's REALLY pronounced.


              • #8
                Also his 1st inning ERA is 11.57. That's a lot of bad starts, not that we haven't noticed by watching games.


                • #9
                  Slightly off topic from Wheeler, but wins/losses by starting catcher:
                  New Dude from the Reds: 3-2;
                  Lobaton: 4-10;
                  Nido: 4-6;
                  d'Arnaud: 4-0;
                  Plawecki: 6-1;

                  yes, I know that everything that a pitcher does is not the fault of the catcher, nor the credit of the catcher...but the catcher does influence the mindset of the pitcher...The pitcher may have the stuff that either gets guys out or doesn't, but what pitch gets called, location, etc of a particular pitch is generally the catcher...

                  and, while not one of the catchers is going to be confused with Johnny Bench, offensively or defensively, their offense can either cause a black hole in the lineup or enhance the lineup...


                  • #10
                    saxon speaks...sandy listens:


                    Mets DFA Jose Lobaton while adding Chris Flexen and Tomas Nido

                    3:54 PM ET
                    • Associated Press

                    NEW YORK -- The Mets have recalled right-hander Chris Flexen and catcher Tomas Nido from Las Vegas of the Pacific Coast League, optioned left-hander Buddy Baumann to the Triple-A farm team and designated catcher Jose Lobaton for assignment.

                    The 23-year-old Flexen was 3-3 with a 3.40 ERA in seven starts and one relief appearances this year. The 24-year-old Nido batted .135 with one RBI in 17 games and 37 at-bats for the Mets this season and hit .257 with six RBI in six games at Las Vegas and five at Double-A Binghamton of the Eastern League.

                    Baumann, 30, is 0-1 with a 19.29 ERA in one game with San Diego and one with the Mets, who claimed him off waivers on April 27.

                    The 33-year-old Lobaton hit .152 with three RBI in 18 games and 46 at-bats with the Mets this season.

                    New York announced the moves Saturday.


                    • #11
                      Callaway said they brought up Nido partially so he could learn from Mesoraco in the 7-10 days until Plawecki returns. Pitchers and coaches have been v. impressed with how Mesoraco prepares and calls for games and they want Nido to get some of that training.


                      • #12
                        Another aspect is the prominent difference between Wheeler's H-A splits; He has a 3.27 ERA - 1.18 whip in 4 games and 22 IP on the road. At home in 3 games -16 IP he has a 9.56- 2.06.

                        Lobaton caught his two worst GS of the season at H against the Rocks and BJays ; 17 H (4 Hr.) 6 BB in 10 IP leading to a 12.61 ERA and 2.30 whip.

                        The best GS was 7 IP 2 H (1 Hr.) 1 BB for an ERA 1.29 and whip of 0.43. Plawecki caught this game.

                        Mesoraco has also only caught him once; 6 IP -4 H- 3 BB- 1 ER for an ERA of 1.50 and a whip of 1.17

                        Nido caught Wheeler 3 times; 1 once at H, 6.0 IP -7 H- 3 BB- 3 ER for an ERA of 4.50 and whip of 1.66. The other two were on the road, totaling 9 IP with 12 H -(1 Hr.) 4 BB and 6 ER for an ERA of 6.00 and a whip of 1.78.

                        The largest SS is the Home -Away factor, which holds up involving the SSS of Lobaton . Plawecki and Mesoraco. The H-A doesn't benefit Nido and more projects him as ineffective regarding Wheeler and overall has a 4.27 ERA catching 93 IP. but that includes in C Syndy 4 times for 25 IP with a 2.55 ERA

                        Syndy has an away preference with an ERA of 2.33, while his 6 game ERA at home is 3.62. He was C by 3 x by Plawecki (2@ H) 3.94 ERA, 4x by Nido (2@ H-A) with an ERA of 2.55 and once by Mesoraco at H with an ERA of 3.60 and once at H by Lobaton with a 3.00 ERA.

                        deG .also has an away preference by so slim 1.65 ERA vs 1.88 that it is insignificant. deG was been caught by T d' A once to open the season giving up 2 Hrs. and 4 runs for an ERA of 6.00. 2x by Plawecki 2.70 ERA, 4 x by Lobaton 2.55 ERA and 2 x by Mesoraco for a 3 27 ERA.

                        Lots of numbers, but what rises to the surface for me is a good pitcher can make a weak C look better, but a weak pitcher can't help a weak C or himself either.


                        • #13
                          Small Sample Size but...

                          Mets have won all 3 games that Mesoraco had had a Home Run;
                          Mets have won 4 of the last 5 games that Mesoraco has caught;
                          Mets have allowed 14 runs in the 6 games that Mesoraco has started (55 innings), with no more than 4 runs allowed in any game

                          Mets are 14-3 when Mes, Plaw, Travis are the catcher;
                          Mets are 8-16 when those 3 have not been the starting catcher.

                          And conversely:
                          Reds are 2-0 when Matt Harvey starts a game for them...

                          so far, the trade has been a win-win for all 4 sides...
                          Last edited by saxon; 20-May-2018, 08:32 AM.


                          • #14
                            So apparently Mesoraco is taking the blame for the pitch calling on Matz 3 run HR in the 4th


                            Devin Mesoraco gives Mets another much-needed lift in win over Diamondbacks

                            by Peter Bottle NY Daily News

                            Who knew that the Mets were obtaining Johnny Bench when they traded Matt Harvey to Cincinnati earlier this month?

                            No, Devin Mesoraco never will be confused with the greatest catcher of all-time.

                            But the imported backstop provided the Mets another immense lift on Saturday night with a tying two-run home run in the eighth inning to set up Wilmer Flores' sacrifice fly in the ninth for a 5-4 comeback win over Arizona.

                            "It absolutely did (change the game)," Mickey Callaway said after the game. "We're down two runs and he ties it up with a big swing. But it wasn't any surprise to anyone in the dugout who saw the way he was swigning the bat (Friday) night.

                            "He just missed probably two homers (Friday) and I thought he was putting good swings on the ball again tonight early. But that was a big one."

                            With the Mets trailing 4-2, Mesoraco followed Jay Bruce's leadoff single in the eighth with his third homer in seven games since he was acquired from the Reds on May 8.

                            "It's an ongoing process," Mesoraco said. "You certainly want to get off to a start on the right foot…You want to come in and help them win games and I'm thankful so far that things have gone well."

                            "I wasn't playing (in Cincinnati) and it makes things a lot tougher. I think coming to a new team after you've been somewhere your whole career, and maybe were a little comfortable. I'm hearing different voices now, and we have a good club. That definitely pumps you up. I want to play games that are important and I think we have a capable group here and can go out there and win a bunch of games."

                            Pitchers and coaches have been praising Mesoraco's approach to calling a game since he joined the Mets nearly two weeks ago.

                            Mesoraco actually took the blame for pitch selection in Saturday's three-run fourth inning against Steven Matz, notably on a two-run tiebreaking home run by No. 8 hitter John Ryan Murphy, the former Yankee catcher, for a 4-2 Arizona lead.

                            Still, Callaway suggested earlier in the day that Mesoraco's presence was the impetus for calling up catching prospect Tomas Nido from Triple-A Las Vegas, when veteran backstop Jose Lobaton, who only had started one game since Mesoraco's arrival, was designated for assignment.

                            With Kevin Plawecki (hand) still expected to remain on the disabled list for another week to 10 days, Callaway believes the 24-year-old Nido would benefit more from apprenticing under Mesoraco over that span than he would accumulating at-bats in the minors.

                            "We wanted to see Nido again. Some other things we thought would help getting Nido up here at this point to help further his development," Callaway said before the game. "We hope Lobo stays in the organization because he's depth for us.

                            "We have a catcher in Mesoraco who prepares the right way. He does a tremendous job of it. When you're in Triple-A, it's really tough to simulate what you have to go through in the big leagues.

                            "We sat down with Nido and he's going to really pay attention to what Mesoraco is doing, and learn how to prepare the right way. Nido has a very bright future if he learns to do some of these things."
                            Last edited by saxon; 20-May-2018, 09:05 AM.


                            • #15
                              by the can edit posts...but even if you start a thread, you can't edit the thread title...I tried to do that but it wouldn't let me...