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Trade: Indians Francisco Lindor and Carlos Carrsaco for Andrés Giménez and Josh Wolf Plus

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  • Trade: Indians Francisco Lindor and Carlos Carrsaco for Andrés Giménez and Josh Wolf Plus

    Mets Close To Acquiring Francisco Lindor, Carlos Carrasco

    by Mark Polishuk
    7 Jan 2021, 11:27 AM CDT

    The Mets are closing in on a trade that would see them acquire on star shortstop Francisco Lindor and right-hander Carlos Carrasco from the Indians. ESPN.com’s Jeff Passan (Twitter links) was the first to report that the two teams were “deep in talks” about a Lindor deal, and MLB.com’s Mark Feinsand reported Carrasco’s involvement in the swap. According to Passan, Andres Gimenez would be part of the trade package heading to Cleveland. Right-handed pitching prospect Josh Wolf is also going to the Tribe, as per The Athletic’s Ken Rosenthal (via Twitter).

    It has been widely assumed that Lindor would be on the move at some point this offseason, as the Tribe is looking to cut payroll and Lindor is now entering his final season before free agency. The Mets have been one of many teams mentioned as a plausible suitor, though comments made by both new owner Steve Cohen and team president Sandy Alderson implied that the Mets would be more apt to sign big-name players rather than trade for them, due to a lack of minor league depth in New York’s farm system.

    More analysis to come…



    https://twitter.com/AnthonyDiComo/st...35499065421824



    https://twitter.com/JeffPassan/statu...36878202896384



    https://twitter.com/martinonyc/statu...38397270765568



    https://twitter.com/timbhealey/statu...39894553423878

    Drew's Sig

  • #2
    https://twitter.com/IE_MLB/status/1347240253590020096

    Drew's Sig

    Comment


    • #3
      Done deal, apparently.

      Wow, I did not expect that. Need to sign him long term. Carrasco too is the cherry on top.

      Stunned.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Brian Stark View Post
        Done deal, apparently.

        Wow, I did not expect that. Need to sign him long term. Carrasco too is the cherry on top.

        Stunned.
        I am stunned too. It came out of nowhere ala the Braves M.O.

        I wonder what this means for obtaining Springer given we just added $30M to the payroll

        Comment


        • #5
          At first I hated this trade, now I only dislike it.

          Lindor: Gone over this to death, so will keep it short. Assuming the plan is to sign Lindor, we're going to be paying 30-35MM per year at a position we could be paying 500K per year, which means we have 34MM less to spend elsewhere. He's a stud, no doubt, but Mets could have been set at SS and bought a different stud for 35MM.

          Carassco: This was the reason I moved from hated to dislike. Thought he had 1 year of control left, but its really 3 at a reasonable price. With a injury 2019, he rebounded nicely in 2020 and has

          Prospect: Josh Wolf and Issah Green... Josh Wolf could develop into a really solid starter, but they managed to protect their most promising pitching prospects. Issah Green is a wildcard. Overall, we are looking at the #9 and #10 prospects per MLB. Neither are close to the show, so we haven't really given up anything that is going to crush out farm system for years to coming.

          Overall, it fills a SP hole, but adds a ton of payroll for 2021 and beyond. So I'll say I wouldn't have made this trade, but it's better than the original reports of ONLY getting Lindor...

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by NY FANG View Post
            At first I hated this trade, now I only dislike it.

            Lindor: Gone over this to death, so will keep it short. Assuming the plan is to sign Lindor, we're going to be paying 30-35MM per year at a position we could be paying 500K per year, which means we have 34MM less to spend elsewhere. He's a stud, no doubt, but Mets could have been set at SS and bought a different stud for 35MM.

            Carassco: This was the reason I moved from hated to dislike. Thought he had 1 year of control left, but its really 3 at a reasonable price. With a injury 2019, he rebounded nicely in 2020 and has

            Prospect: Josh Wolf and Issah Green... Josh Wolf could develop into a really solid starter, but they managed to protect their most promising pitching prospects. Issah Green is a wildcard. Overall, we are looking at the #9 and #10 prospects per MLB. Neither are close to the show, so we haven't really given up anything that is going to crush out farm system for years to coming.

            Overall, it fills a SP hole, but adds a ton of payroll for 2021 and beyond. So I'll say I wouldn't have made this trade, but it's better than the original reports of ONLY getting Lindor...
            The big question is what does this deal mean for CF?

            Comment


            • NY FANG
              NY FANG commented
              Editing a comment
              I think I just verbatim wrote that to my dad.

          • #7
            You have to think this takes us out of the Bauer sweepstakes as for sure CF is a bigger hole given Carrasco fills a SP hole. This deal must be the reason the Mets dropped out on Sugano.

            Comment


            • jeffmetsfan
              jeffmetsfan commented
              Editing a comment
              Definitely won't be going for Bauer or even the 2nd tier guys. May be more likely to hand out the prove it deals to Corey Kluber or Taijuan Walker types, which I'd be fine with, to compete with Matz for #5 spot.

          • #8
            Taking a quick look at fan graphs (amazing that they are already updated).

            This put 2020 payroll at 177M for lux tax purposes. Still some room to spend. Biggest needs:​​​​​​ in this order (IMO)​
            1. CF
            2. Additional starter
            3. BP help
            If they sign Springer - which everyone still wants, let's call him 28MM for now. And let's say they sign Odorizzi, 15MM. Total is 220

            2020 conclusion: Unless Uncle Steve does look to break the cap in his first year, it likely means either no Springer or no Odorizzi type, but as I know everyone here wants both, I'm continuing assuming we add them, but forget about any real BP help.


            For 2021: The shed a lot of payroll. In the order listed on Fan Graphs: Stroman, Familia, Brach, Thor, Matz, Conforto, Lindor. Total: approx 78MM. This leaves 90MM in luxury tax payroll per fan graphs + the 43MM for CF and SP, and adding in around 30-35MM in arbitration, that's about 165MM committed to 2021.
            • Lindor: 35MM (he's a must sign now that you've traded for him)
            • Conforto: 20-25? (based on springer asking price)
            • Thor: 20 - 25?
            • Stroman replacement: $0 If they can sign an Odorizzi type for this year, and resign Thor 1 year removed from TJS, probably no one).
            • Familia Replacement: (10MM)
            • Total: 254MM
            2021 conclusion: Unless I f'ed up somewhere, which has happend before, the obvious answer is NEVER going to happen. So something has got to give here. So who we losing?

            Comment


            • #9
              Originally posted by NY FANG View Post
              Taking a quick look at fan graphs (amazing that they are already updated).

              This put 2020 payroll at 177M for lux tax purposes. Still some room to spend. Biggest needs:​​​​​​ in this order (IMO)​
              1. CF
              2. Additional starter
              3. BP help
              If they sign Springer - which everyone still wants, let's call him 28MM for now. And let's say they sign Odorizzi, 15MM. Total is 220

              2020 conclusion: Unless Uncle Steve does look to break the cap in his first year, it likely means either no Springer or no Odorizzi type, but as I know everyone here wants both, I'm continuing assuming we add them, but forget about any real BP help.


              For 2021: The shed a lot of payroll. In the order listed on Fan Graphs: Stroman, Familia, Brach, Thor, Matz, Conforto, Lindor. Total: approx 78MM. This leaves 90MM in luxury tax payroll per fan graphs + the 43MM for CF and SP, and adding in around 30-35MM in arbitration, that's about 165MM committed to 2021.
              • Lindor: 35MM (he's a must sign now that you've traded for him)
              • Conforto: 20-25? (based on springer asking price)
              • Thor: 20 - 25?
              • Stroman replacement: $0 If they can sign an Odorizzi type for this year, and resign Thor 1 year removed from TJS, probably no one).
              • Familia Replacement: (10MM)
              • Total: 254MM
              2021 conclusion: Unless I f'ed up somewhere, which has happend before, the obvious answer is NEVER going to happen. So something has got to give here. So who we losing?
              Don't forget Cano is back in 2021 to further complicate the math

              Comment


              • NY FANG
                NY FANG commented
                Editing a comment
                he's already factored in Fan Graph's 90MM number.

              • jeffmetsfan
                jeffmetsfan commented
                Editing a comment
                Maybe they can creatively move Cano to take on salary from another team in 2021, since Cano is free this season. If I take on a contract, it'd be an expensive reliever like Kimbrel. So Bryant and Kimbrel with JD Davis, Cano and prospects going to Cubs?

            • #10
              A different thought is similar to what we talked about when adding Pitching vs C/CF. We asked if adding offense at only 1 of the positions and then increasing our pitching would be ok considering the offense was pretty good already in 2019 and 2020.

              So do we ditch Springer for a defensive option now that we've improved the offense without sacrificing defense at SS?

              Comment


              • #11
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                He must be thinking, oh S%&t

                Comment


                • #12
                  Sorry for the barrage of posts, but still processing this trade and thinking out loud here - what does everyone think Carrasco could have garnered in a trade alone? Age 34-36 contract at 2 year 12MM with an 14MM 3rd year option (or 3MM buy out).

                  Historically a 3-5 WAR with exception of 2019 when he was diagnosed with Leukemia and missed June - August and then pitched from the BP in September. He did show a nice 2020 bounce back year starting all 12 of his appearances for a 2.91 ERA, 1.206 WHIP and 10.9 K/9.

                  Considering what Darvish commanded in the Padres trade, and considering Carrasco while not Darvish isn't paid like Darvish either, you'd think he'd get a decent haul of his own. So I guess my point is, if we had to allocate prospects to Lindor, and prospects to Carrasco, would it break down to essentially something like:

                  Lindor --> Gimenez (and 20MM in reduced Indians' salary)
                  Carrasco --> Wolf and Green (and 12MM in reduced Indians' salary)?

                  While I wouldn't have made the trade (and spend that 32MM of 2021 money elsewhere), it doesn't feel like Alderson got had. If anything it's far better than I would have expected.

                  So I guess my musing and official stance is this is a fair trade, but for logistical reasons, I would not have done it if I were the GM.

                  Comment


                  • #13
                    Originally posted by West Coast Mets Fan View Post
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                    He must be thinking, oh S%&t
                    yup - both him and Springer are prob on the phone with their agents asking "what does this mean for us?"

                    Springer's agent response: Nothing I haven't seen before.
                    Bauer's agent response: Shit if I know, you're my only client

                    Comment


                    • #14
                      Originally posted by NY FANG View Post

                      yup - both him and Springer are prob on the phone with their agents asking "what does this mean for us?"

                      Springer's agent response: Nothing I haven't seen before.
                      Bauer's agent response: Shit if I know, you're my only client
                      I literally spit out my water when I read the Bauer thing.

                      She must have lost a gallon of piss seeing the big money option slide to the "maybe/probably not" column.

                      Springer supposedly has been offered 5/125 from the Jays. That pretty much sets the bar for him. I don't think it's out of range for him. Conforto, if he wasn't reprisented by Bora$$, might have been a fair resign option, but we know how $cott is.

                      Comment


                      • jeffmetsfan
                        jeffmetsfan commented
                        Editing a comment
                        Here's the big question. If Mets match the Blue Jays, where would Springer sign?

                    • #15
                      Fang, that's a LOT to try and digest. To try and reply to one of your many points, I think we can sacrifice some offense in CF for better defense. Lindor is a face of the franchise type player who will sell a lot of jerseys and brings an all around game not seen in Queens at SS, well, maybe ever.

                      I may be a cheap bastard but does Thor really get $20-$25M??? Wow, seems like a big overpay to me but maybe he kills it in 2021 and gets that kind of scratch.

                      I think Carrasco on his own would be a good addition given his production, relative low cost and the good mojo he brings. If I am not mistaken, he won the Roberto Clemente award in 2019.

                      And all things bring equal, if it comes down to a Conforto or Springer for roughly the same money, who would you take? Pros and cons to both.
                      Last edited by Canadian Mets Fan; 07-Jan-2021, 05:19 PM.

                      Comment


                      • NY FANG
                        NY FANG commented
                        Editing a comment
                        sorry, had a bit of verbal diarrhea as I tried to digest this trade.
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