2020/21 Hot Stove - What's Cooking?

[mjjm367]

I did the MLBTradeRumors prediction contest...I have the following players heading to the Mets:

-Trevor Bauer (Contract: 5yrs, $125M, no trade clause, player opt out clause after year 2, 6th year mutual option at $25M, $5M buyout)

-James McCann (Contract: 2yrs, $18M, with 3rd year club option $8M, $2M buyout)

-Tommy La Stella (Contract: 2yrs, $10M, incentives based on # of games started)

-Charlie Morton (Contract: 2yrs, $$25M, with 3rd year club option $10M, $2M buyout)

-Alex Colome (Contract: 3yrs, $27M)

I have George Springer signing with Red Sox and JT Realmuto signing with Phillies.

Bauer - I'm all in, but there is no way he's taking a deal for $25M/year (MLBTR has him at 4/$128M). Especially with deGrom making $35M/year.

McCann - again, all in, maybe 2/$10M, but your idea for the 3rd year option is a good one,

La Stella - ???? a middle IF that mostly plays 2B, and has only played in more than 80 games once since 2014. We have too many IF, and spend the money elsewhere.

Morton - all in. We could front load the contract with the Cano savings.

Colome - very interesting pick. Would really solidify the bullpen, which will be heavily used in 2021.

Two questions - What are you thinking we do about CF? What team did you pick for Springer and for JBJ? - Disregard, see edit.

Edit - we were posting at the same time, so I didn't see your answer to the CF question until after I posted

[mjjm367]

Rest of the moves revolve around bringing Lindor in. Trade chips include Amed Rosario, JD Davis, Brandon Nimmo, Ronny Mauricio and Jeff McNeil.

I still don't get the whole trade for Lindor thing. He is a free agent in one year. Look at the list of "trade chips" you presented. If we can't resign Lindor, you have given that up all that player capital for 2021 only. And then, if he doesn't resign with us, in 2022, you have no SS and nothing to trade for help. And if you think that we can sign him to a contract in 2022, why not wait a year, save the trade chips, and get Lindor when he only costs the same money as he would anyway. We have plenty of other needs.

Also - Kevin Pillar????? Am I missing something? He didn't even make the MLBTR top 50 free agent contest you are in. And every article I've read about CF free agents say that the CF list is Springer - large drop off - JBJ - and not much else. Why Pillar? Great defense, mediocre offense (except for half a season in 2020 in Colorado), about to turn 32.

[mjjm367]

OK, looking some more at Pillar, I can se him as one of the better alternatives in CF in we don't get Springer or JBJ. He would definitely be a defensive upgrade, and a bottom 3rd of the order hitter. What he lacks in OBP, he makes up for in SLG.

I'm still not getting why he hasn't received much coverage as CF option. Anybody got any more knowledge on him?

[jeffmetsfan]

OK, looking some more at Pillar, I can se him as one of the better alternatives in CF in we don't get Springer or JBJ. He would definitely be a defensive upgrade, and a bottom 3rd of the order hitter. What he lacks in OBP, he makes up for in SLG.

I'm still not getting why he hasn't received much coverage as CF option. Anybody got any more knowledge on him?

I haven't seen him play much. He has spent much of his career as a role player in the AL. But I do know he is one of the best CFs in the game right now. His bat is a tad below league average. He's a perfect platoon player. In all honesty, if we lose out on Springer and JBJ, I'd look to acquire Kiermaier from Rays and use Pillar as a platoon option and defensive replacement. He's definitely not an everyday starter which is why he won't cost much.

[mjjm367]

I haven't seen him play much. He has spent much of his career as a role player in the AL. But I do know he is one of the best CFs in the game right now. His bat is a tad below league average. He's a perfect platoon player. In all honesty, if we lose out on Springer and JBJ, I'd look to acquire Kiermaier from Rays and use Pillar as a platoon option and defensive replacement. He's definitely not an everyday starter which is why he won't cost much.

Can't plan an off season around possibly trading for Kiermaier. Why would the Rays, who just went to the World Series, trade him and open up their own hole in CF? And if Pillar isn't your starter in CF, who is?

[jeffmetsfan]

Can't plan an off season around possibly trading for Kiermaier. Why would the Rays, who just went to the World Series, trade him and open up their own hole in CF? And if Pillar isn't your starter in CF, who is?

If Nimmo still on roster, he sticks in CF when Pillar isn't in lineup. When Pillar is, he shifts to LF. One good thing about Mets roster is there are a ton of scenarios that can play out. Having roster flexibility is huge this offseason.

MJJM, are there any players you have interest in acquiring in trade? It seems you are hesitant to move pieces for upgrades. Lindor is a fit bc SS is a premier position and you get offense, defense and speed from him. He is a unique talent and you can also afford to lock him up long term. I don't think the Mets do a deal unless they can work something out with Lindor and agent on a long term contract beforehand.

[mjjm367]

If Nimmo still on roster, he sticks in CF when Pillar isn't in lineup. When Pillar is, he shifts to LF. One good thing about Mets roster is there are a ton of scenarios that can play out. Having roster flexibility is huge this offseason.

MJJM, are there any players you have interest in acquiring in trade? It seems you are hesitant to move pieces for upgrades. Lindor is a fit bc SS is a premier position and you get offense, defense and speed from him. He is a unique talent and you can also afford to lock him up long term. I don't think the Mets do a deal unless they can work something out with Lindor and agent on a long term contract beforehand.

"If Nimmo still on roster, he sticks in CF when Pillar isn't in lineup." I'm sure a couple of members' heads exploded when they read that.

Pillar - although I hadn't seen him mentioned anywhere, you have presented a good case for him as a viable fallback alternative if we don't get Springer or JBJ. In that scenario (a quite possible scenario), I can go with Pillar (although I am open to other suggestions).

Trades - I'll address Lindor below. I'm not at all hesitant to move pieces for upgrades. We have redundant pieces, can't play them all at once. That's what you do with excess values you can't utilize. We have some really attractive pieces. But I want to use them to fill positions of need first. Current positions of need are CF, C & SP. Nobody is trading a good CF or C, they are scarce valuable commodity. I would love some controllable SP, but again, who is trading that away? Show me a trade that makes sense, and I'm all for it.

Lindor - I am specifically against this trade, very much so. Here's why...

- We are trading our valuable prospects FOR ONE YEAR OF LINDOR. Forget the whole "we only do the trade if we can sign him to an extension". Why would Lindor do that? Why limit his market to one team when he is one year from a very big payday? How is that to his advantage? We would have to offer a contract big enough for him to sign. We can do that anyway in one year. You still traded away your prospect capital for ONE YEAR OF LINDOR extra. Are we banking on Lindor getting us to the World Series specifically in 2021? Because that is what the trade would be seeking to accomplish. Any future production would be due to the new contract. What a waste of tradable pieces.

- The following SS will be free agents after 2021 (with age) per MLBTR - Javier Baez (29), Carlos Correa (27), Francisco Lindor (28), Cory Seager (28), Trevor Story (29). Wow. A bunch of great choices, all available for just money, in one year. So it's not like we have to jump on Lindor now, because there is no one else available for years.

- I don't see a SS issue for the Mets in 2021. Gimenez, Rosario, Mauricio. I saw enough of Gimenez in 2020 to be excited for his progress in 2021. His .732 OPS, with exceptional defense is certainly starting SS quality. I've not given up on Rosario yet, although I am at a tipping point with him. I'm hoping that the prospect of losing his starting job motivates him to get back to the positive offensive signs shown at the end of 2019. Mauricio is one of top prospects, a SS. Two possible scenarios. Scenario A - one of our guys steps up good enough to lock down the job, keeping the SS cost down, allowing us to spend elsewhere. Scenario B - Our guys do well and we sign one of the elite SS available after 2021. Our abundance of young, controllable SS will be even more valuable, and we will not need them in this scenario. Even better trade pieces.

- Lindor summation - no way do I "waste" tradeable assets for one year of Lindor. Want to make trades, sure. But definitely NOT this one.

[mjjm367]

OK - don't know if I should be honored or offended. 17 minutes after my post, MLBTR posted a discussion on the Mets SS situation and the Lindor trade.

Mets' Amed Rosario "Likely" To Play Multiple Positions In 2021 - MLB Trade Rumors

Disclaimer - I did not read the Sherman article before I posted, so I'm not guilty of plagiarism.

[jeffmetsfan]

I totally get it. Lindor isn't a must have by any means. But if he can be had with the right package, I think you go for it. The Mets have a great core right now with Alonso, Conforto, deGrom, Smith and I honestly think with the right pieces brought on, they can contend for a pennant in 2021. Noted on the SS free agent market after 2021, but that should actually worry Lindor's camp. If his agent hears mention of a 7 year $210 million contract, I think he would take that very seriously. With competition in next year, who knows what will happen to his market. I look at Lindor similarly to Betts last year. Any team trading for him is gonna lock him up subsequently.

In the event Lindor doesn't happen, I still prefer moving on from Rosario. Let Gimenez play SS, slide McNeil back to 2B and prioritize 3B because I don't trust JD Davis there. My top 2 gets are Springer and Bauer but I'm convinced that Springer is going to Red Sox.

Again, depth is in our favor. There are so many options for us. As much as I love JD and Rosario's bats, I prefer to move them for more well-rounded players. Nimmo is the one big name to watch because his contract is expiring and I don't think the Mets value him enough to extend him.

[mjjm367]

It's not just Lindor for me. For 2021, I don't trade for anyone who only has 1 year of control left. I want to contend every year. If I'm trading, get me a guy who I have around for a while.

And I think that 3B is a more important position than SS to address in 2021.

I also start Gimenez over Rosario. Per the MLBTR article, Rosario is not working out at any other positions, as he sees himself as "the starting SS for the Mets". Oh really? Not the way you are hitting. Get used to life on the bench. Although I would rather keep Guillorme there for versatility. After reading that, Rosario is my prime trade away candidate.

Your thought about the abundance of SS lowering the market after 2021. Good good, a very real possibility. So then why would a team offer Lindor 7/$210M now? And again, if he would take that contract in 2021, he will take in 2022.

Even bigger question - why would I trade away layers for the exclusive opportunity to offer Lindor a massive contract, when I have multiple high quality SS available in 2022 for a less massive contract?

[NY FANG]

Lindor as you say us a generational talent, adding top tier offense and defense at a premium position to any roster. At 28 years old, there is no way (as in zero chance) he forgoes free agency to sign a 7x210 contract. Think closer to Bryce Harper/Manny Machado contracts of 10+ years and 350 million for him to even consider skipping auctioning himself to the highest bidder.

[NY FANG]

As far as trades, getting a controllable player at a premium position (CF or C) is highly unlikely without emptying the farm. Thats why JT and Springer make a lot of sense for the Mets. Trading talent from our MLB roster (Nimmo/Rosaio/Smith/etc) will more likely net prospects then proven MLB starters.

Anyone who has played fantasy sports has received this trade offer before. Other manager send you proposal for their three boarderline guys from their bench in exchange for a starter on your team. The sum of the parts is not the equal to the talent in a single starter.

A Mets trade for anything of value will need to include one of their top prospect talents and won't be had for just the guys above. Think about what we had to give away for just Diaz while taking on an overpaid 20MM 37 year old player.

Fill the roster when all it will cost you is money. Trade away our redundancy for other teams prospects or BP help, and get in a position to succeed for years.

[saxon]

Wait a minute, did you just call Nimmo a borderline guy? I thought that he was Rickey freaking Henderson.

[mjjm367]

LMFAO - did you not see this, it's only 5 posts up...

"If Nimmo still on roster, he sticks in CF when Pillar isn't in lineup." I'm sure a couple of members' heads exploded when they read that.

🤯

Are you OK man?

[West Coast Mets Fan]

I understand why the Mets have not been active yet this offseason. No need to rush, especially with the expected flood of non-tenders coming in December. That said, I am growing impatient to see how the roster shapes up for next season!

[Canadian Mets Fan]

We do not need Pillar. Saw more than enough of him with the Jays. Used to be a fine fielder but has lost a step and cannot hit a lick. He was the starting CF on the Jays for 4+ seasons. His slugging was up this past year but look at his career stats, he is NOT a good hitter, never was, never will be. Low OBP, strikes out too much. He would be very similar to Marisnick and probably cost us more.

[jeffmetsfan]

Again, Pillar is not at the top of my list. It's Springer, then to a lesser extent JBJ. But after those 2, what CF would you prioritize. At that point I look at best defender.