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Wilmer Flores - Walkoff Wilmer Strikes Again!

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  • #31
    I've seen no evidence to show that it is the catchers failure in stopping base runners.

    Mesoraco 4 of his 6 years in Cinci was between 26-29% (2 years 20-22%)
    Loboton ranged from 26-33 5 of his 8 pre-mets years (14-20 the other three)

    The other three guys are only minor league numbers for reference -- buuuut --

    Nido 25-50% vs 20 on the mets
    Plaw 23-32% most years in the minors

    I'm not saying any of these guys are Yadi back there, but there's a constant theme that isn't new to any of us. Stolen bases against the mets are usually not against the catcher, so buying defense isn't going to do us much good. When they got Lobaton, he was SUPPOSED to be the DEFENSIVE option... 20% later...

    Now, to look at this by pitcher... do we think that DeGrom's catchers are that much more skilled that Matz's? Found a site that has data from 2014 - 2017
    Noah Syndergaard NYM R 364 65 12 84%
    Steven Matz NYM L 234 32 6 84%
    Rafael Montero NYM R 192 22 4 85%
    Zack Wheeler NYM R 271 15 5 75%
    Jacob deGrom NYM R 680 35 17 67%
    Easy to blame the catchers...


    • #32
      As I mentioned earlier Mesoraco had one outlier season that influenced his career stats both offensively and defensively.

      Mesoraco has an outlier season (2014) which influences his overall picture. excluding his Sept. call up and the outlier his slash over the remaining .218/.240/.356/.596 and games caught is 55. Eliminating the outlier crushes his WAR going from 4.2 to -0.5. CS is approx. 23% and dWAR is 0.3.

      Of those six seasons, 2 of them were SSS with a 27% fewer CS than 8-3, in a game of inches would be 18 % for both 2011 and 16. Since that outlier season (2015-18) his CS % is 21.

      Loboton ranged from 26-33 5 of his 8 pre-mets years (14-20 the other three)

      In interest of accuracy Lobaton's CS % as described is 21% overall. I would also ignore the first two seasons with 130 innings in 20 games combined.

      Lobaton was a back up C for his career, with one season as an exception when he split time with Jose Molina. Lobaton played behind some outstanding C beside Molina, Blanco who was also was a native of Venezuela. With the Nationals he played behind Ramos and Bob Boone was Farm Director and Director of Player Development.

      Neither Lobaton or Mesoraco were solutions and their credentials didn't suggest so. I don't put it all on the C, but they are part of the problem and that is ignoring the lack of offense. The example that you missed was Rene Riveria who had a 32 % CS 2016-17 at age 32-33.

      do we think that DeGrom's catchers are that much more skilled that Matz's

      I know that some pitchers like deG are better than Matz, and I believe that a better pitcher makes his C better. He limits the number of base runners and he likely does a better job of keeping runners honest. There are also base stealers that are almost bullet proof and others that steal a base judiciously when success is almost a given. Catchers are victimized by these types. The solution is to limit the SB bids to those select few who can steal bases at will.

      It is the marginal base runners who have waged war on the Mets partially because of the catchers and partially because of Syndergaard and Matz.

      deG's 2017 and 18 are remarkably similar in volume; 31 GS, 201 IP and 209 IP, 261 SBO vs 264 and 21 attempts vs 22. last season the CS success was 14%...this season 36 % The difference, I think was deG effectiveness with a whip of 0.94 vs last season 1.19...a difference of 43 base runners. The BAbip fell from .306 to .287 and Hrs./9 fell from 1.3 to a league leading 0.4. With fewer opportunities to score runs runners became more aggressive...foolishly aggressive. The difference between 14% and 36 % 4 fewer SB or 5 more CS.